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Interview audio: [[:File:Bob_Bishop.mp3]]

Interview audio: [[:File:Bob_Bishop.mp3]]

Interviewer: Mike Maginnis

Interviewer: Em Maginnis

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Bob Bishop, along with Steve Wozniak, co-founded Apple Computer, Inc.'s R&D lab.  Mr. Bishop wrote the first video games for the nascent Apple II computer, and went on to develop groundbreaking graphics routines that were utilized in such diverse places as CBS Television's popular Tic Tac Dough game show.  He recently took time to talk with Juiced.GS writer Mike Maginnis about those heady days and to fill us in on what he's been up to lately.

Bob Bishop, along with Steve Wozniak, co-founded Apple Computer, Inc.'s R&D lab.  Mr. Bishop wrote the first video games for the nascent Apple II computer, and went on to develop groundbreaking graphics routines that were utilized in such diverse places as CBS Television's popular Tic Tac Dough game show.  He recently took time to talk with Juiced.GS writer Em Maginnis about those heady days and to fill us in on what he's been up to lately.

Mike Maginnis: How were you first introduced to Apple and their computers?

Maginnis: How were you first introduced to Apple and their computers?

Bob Bishop: I saw an ad in a magazine back around 1975 for the Apple-1 computer.  They only made about a hundred of them or so, and I got interested in it, so I went up to Palo Alto and I knocked on Steve Jobs' door.  He wasn't home at the time, but his mother and stepfather were there and they expected him back any minute, so they had me come in and sit down.  About five minutes later, Steve came walking up and we got introduced, he took me out to the garage in the back and showed me the Apple-1.  He had some trouble getting it to work—he had a keyboard and a monitor and he would type some stuff in but he couldn't quite remember how he was supposed to do stuff because Woz hadn't quite showed him everything.  But I saw enough to be interested because I saw a lot of potential, so I ended up buying one—not from him, but from another computer store that was being started in Southern California. That's where I was living at the time, and one of my friends was starting up a new computer store with a couple of his associates.  So I became their first customer and bought an Apple-1 from them.

Bob Bishop: I saw an ad in a magazine back around 1975 for the Apple-1 computer.  They only made about a hundred of them or so, and I got interested in it, so I went up to Palo Alto and I knocked on Steve Jobs' door.  He wasn't home at the time, but his mother and stepfather were there and they expected him back any minute, so they had me come in and sit down.  About five minutes later, Steve came walking up and we got introduced, he took me out to the garage in the back and showed me the Apple-1.  He had some trouble getting it to work—he had a keyboard and a monitor and he would type some stuff in but he couldn't quite remember how he was supposed to do stuff because Woz hadn't quite showed him everything.  But I saw enough to be interested because I saw a lot of potential, so I ended up buying one—not from him, but from another computer store that was being started in Southern California. That's where I was living at the time, and one of my friends was starting up a new computer store with a couple of his associates.  So I became their first customer and bought an Apple-1 from them.

Maginnis: And how did Woz happen to invite you to join Apple’s R&D group?

Maginnis: And how did Woz happen to invite you to join Apple’s R&D group?

Bishop: I'd been doing lots of stuff on the Apple, and of course I guess Apple knew about the stuff I was doing.  In fact, I later found out from Jef Raskin, who was working at Apple at the time, that every time I'd send a new cassette tape up to Apple with one of my games, everybody would close down the entire engineering department and sit and play my game all afternoon!  So, they knew about me but they never bothered contacting me.  One day, I went up to the West Coast Computer Faire, up in San Francisco—I was living in the Los Angeles area at the time—and while I was there, Atari contacted me.  They wanted me to come for an interview.  I said okay, and I went up to talk with them.  They showed me around the labs and everything.  In fact, while I was walking through the lab, I noticed a cartridge sitting on one of the lab benches.  It was labeled "APPLE-TALKER"!  Anyway, they eventually made me a job offer, but I didn't want to leave NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory (JPL), where I was working and was happy, so I turned Atari down.  About a week or two later, they came back and offered me more money.  I thought, they must really want me badly, so I gave my  

Bishop: I'd been doing lots of stuff on the Apple, and of course I guess Apple knew about the stuff I was doing.  In fact, I later found out from Jef Raskin, who was working at Apple at the time, that every time I'd send a new cassette tape up to Apple with one of my games, everybody would close down the entire engineering department and sit and play my game all afternoon!  So, they knew about me but they never bothered contacting me.  One day, I went up to the West Coast Computer Faire, up in San Francisco—I was living in the Los Angeles area at the time—and while I was there, Atari contacted me.  They wanted me to come for an interview.  I said okay, and I went up to talk with them.  They showed me around the labs and everything.  In fact, while I was walking through the lab, I noticed a cartridge sitting on one of the lab benches.  It was labeled "APPLE-TALKER"!  Anyway, they eventually made me a job offer, but I didn't want to leave NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory (JPL), where I was working and was happy, so I turned Atari down.  About a week or two later, they came back and offered me more money.  I thought, they must really want me badly, so I gave my notice to JPL and accepted the Atari offer.

 

notice to JPL and accepted the Atari offer.

Three days later, I got a phone call from Apple.  They said they wanted to talk to me.  I said, "Well, I've already accepted a job offer from somebody else," and they said, "Yeah, we know all about it, but we want to talk to you anyway."  So they flew me up, and that's when I talked with Woz and Mike Markkula, the president of the company, and Tom Whitney, the executive vice president.  The four of us sat around all Saturday afternoon.  They were answering anything I wanted to know.  They held no secrets back; any question I asked, they gave me answers to.  They wanted me to come work for them, so they topped Atari's offer.  And that's how, after working there for a few years, I was able to retire.

Three days later, I got a phone call from Apple.  They said they wanted to talk to me.  I said, "Well, I've already accepted a job offer from somebody else," and they said, "Yeah, we know all about it, but we want to talk to you anyway."  So they flew me up, and that's when I talked with Woz and Mike Markkula, the president of the company, and Tom Whitney, the executive vice president.  The four of us sat around all Saturday afternoon.  They were answering anything I wanted to know.  They held no secrets back; any question I asked, they gave me answers to.  They wanted me to come work for them, so they topped Atari's offer.  And that's how, after working there for a few years, I was able to retire.

Maginnis:  How long were you actually with Apple?

Maginnis:  How long were you actually with Apple?

Bishop: I had a three-year stock option.  That was the incentive for going there, because I had a sizable percentage of the company.  Not real great, but enough to be able to retire on.  After two years went by, Apple started getting wise and said, "Hey, wait a minute.  When we gave this guy the stock option, Apple was like 19 cents a share.  Now it's up in the twenty dollar range.  We could save ourselves a lot of money if we get rid of this guy."  So they had the infamous "Black Wednesday", when Mike Scott went around and fired forty of us, including the executive vice president Tom Whitney and me.  To make it look legitimate, they included secretaries and janitors and everybody, just so it didn't look obvious.  But their main motive was to get rid of the stockholders who had too much stock.  So I  

Bishop: I had a three-year stock option.  That was the incentive for going there, because I had a sizable percentage of the company.  Not real great, but enough to be able to retire on.  After two years went by, Apple started getting wise and said, "Hey, wait a minute.  When we gave this guy the stock option, Apple was like 19 cents a share.  Now it's up in the twenty dollar range.  We could save ourselves a lot of money if we get rid of this guy."  So they had the infamous "Black Wednesday", when Mike Scott went around and fired forty of us, including the executive vice president Tom Whitney and me.  To make it look legitimate, they included secretaries and janitors and everybody, just so it didn't look obvious.  But their main motive was to get rid of the stockholders who had too much stock.  So I was there about two years.

 

was there about two years.

Maginnis:  That must have been an unpleasant way to leave the company.

Maginnis:  That must have been an unpleasant way to leave the company.

Bishop: Yeah, but the very next day, Gene Carter, the vice president of sales, called me and asked if I would come work for his department.  And I said, "Oh good! I get to keep my stock option then!" And he said, "Nope, sorry." So, there was no doubt they got rid of me just to save the stock.  It's not that they wanted to get rid of me, because they immediately wanted me back.

Bishop: Yeah, but the very next day, Gene Carter, the vice president of sales, called me and asked if I would come work for his department.  And I said, "Oh good! I get to keep my stock option then!" And he said, "Nope, sorry." So, there was no doubt they got rid of me just to save the stock.  It's not that they wanted to get rid of me, because they immediately wanted me back.

Maginnis: What was it like to watch the evolution of the Apple, all the way back from the Apple-1 through the IIGS, considering how large a part you played in Apple's early years?

Maginnis: What was it like to watch the evolution of the Apple, all the way back from the Apple-1 through the IIGS, considering how large a part you played in Apple's early years?

Bishop: When the company first started out, it was one building on Bandley in Cupertino, and shortly afterward, they opened up a second building, Bandley 2.  They moved the engineering group to Bandley 2, and Bandley 1 was left to do administrative things and manufacturing and so on.  In fact, when I was there, Steve Wozniak and I were the entire R&D group for the entire company.  They had only about a hundred or so employees, so Steve and I constituted the entire R&D group.  It was amusing—a few years ago, I went back down to Apple, and I saw they have a whole building dedicated to Apple R&D now!  Steve and I have been replaced by a whole building.

Bishop: When the company first started out, it was one building on Bandley in Cupertino, and shortly afterward, they opened up a second building, Bandley 2.  They moved the engineering group to Bandley 2, and Bandley 1 was left to do administrative things and manufacturing and so on.  In fact, when I was there, Steve Wozniak and I were the entire R&D group for the entire company.  They had only about a hundred or so employees, so Steve and I constituted the entire R&D group.  It was amusing—a few years ago, I went back down to Apple, and I saw they have a whole building dedicated to Apple R&D now!  Steve and I have been replaced by a whole building.

Maginnis:  It looks like you continued to use the Apple II family all the way through the Apple IIGS.   

Maginnis:  It looks like you continued to use the Apple II family all the way through the Apple IIGS.